Final is what we built to take back control of our own credit cards for how and when we’re charged, instead of leaving it up to merchants. That led to merchant-specific numbers and limits, managed automatically, as well as transparency in statements. It’s our stake in the ground, a way to shift the culture in credit towards consumer friendliness.
Do you actually know, for a fact, that you can generate arbitrary card numbers? Meaning have you got an agreement with visa, mastercard, or similar where they allow you to do that.
Is there a limit on how many customers/unique card numbers you can have, and is there an inherent cost in gaining a new number (e.g. will accounts be capped at X disposable numbers per Y period).
Once you delete a card number how quickly is it returned to the "pool?" And do you re-assign it to a new user requesting a number?
Do you think third party web-sites will break because a card number is used twice for two different users (e.g. user 1 and user 2 both have the same number on their accounts, because user 1 let it expire, and then user 2 received it and utilised it).
Are you worried that these numbers could be used for fraud or abuse (e.g. unlimited trials).
They need a relationship with the issuing bank on top of Visa/MC. That is rather impossible. However, Visa/MC new TSP that was announced with Apple Pay really solves this problem. In essence, we all get this new feature for free just next year :)
One of the problem w/ traditional credit cards is that my interests are not aligned with those of the card issuer. It's better for me to pay off my balance every month, but better for my bank if I don't so they can collect interest.
Will this be any different with Final? If so, how do you plan to make money?
Don't worry, the banks love it when you pay the account in full every month. They make more money from merchant fees than they do from interest payments.
Banks work hard to make sure credit card holders are happy. After all, it's fairly easy to switch credit cards.
It's the merchants that have the short end of the stick in the three way relationship between banks, customers and merchants.
Speaking of which, how will you be different from other small credit cards when it comes to merchant relations? If I go to "Jo Shmo's Taco Shop" am I still going to need a back up Visa card because that's all they are willing to take?
Actually, ALL Visa and MasterCard cards are backed by some other institution. MasterCard and Visa are (well, were: it's more complicated lately) associations of banks.
We make money when our customers are happy. Yes, we still make money the traditional way - via transaction fees and interest on debt. But we make a lot more money if we have millions of happy customers - we can't win this market if we treat our customers like every other bank.
We're building this product for ourselves and for our friends first. And many of them are unhappy with how banks treat customers and optimize for fees and increasing debt.
We don't think encouraging conspicuous consumption is the only way to be a successful credit card company.
But you also make money from advertisers. From your privacy policy:
"you agree that we may provide any of the information we have collected from you in non-personally identifiable form to an Advertiser, in order for that Advertiser to select the appropriate audience for those advertisements and/or offers."
"Final is aligned with you"
No, not aligned with me at all.
Why can't we have a business model that is straight up, you know, where the ENTIRE relationship is between you and us, the end user, where your profit comes ENTIRELY by making us happy. The free-market works much better that way.
Will the physical card have a number embossed on it, similar to other cards? Or can the physical card number be changed in some way (e.g. Plastc's demo supposedly leveraging e-ink display on the card[1])?
Also, does Final aim to become a credit card payments processor similar to Visa, Mastercard, et. al., or will you be leveraging a banking/credit institution in the backend to start with?
I was wondering about the number embossing as well. I could see it confusing or sketching out some cashiers, especially with all the recent news about credit card fraud. I like the e-ink idea that Plastc had and would be very attracted to this card if it had that just for ease of use.
I've had situations (recently) where the card machine wasn't working so they manually tapped in the number on the front instead. Without the number and given the same situation I might be left without a working card.
Agreed. In many retail locations they often type in the last 4 digits shown on the physical card even if it's not the entire card number, even when the PoS card scanner is working.
I have a credit card from capital one without embossing. The number and name is just written with ink, and the card surface is smooth. I've never had an issue using it.
Card design standards have been changing in the last year. We'll be issuing a card over the V/MC/Amex network, which requires the card to have a network logo on it. Exact branding is battle we know we will have to fight with the networks and our partner bank, but ultimately 100% acceptance at all merchants is our goal.
The eInk display is one of the reasons that Plastc probably won't work on a credit card size. If you browse through the comment you'll see more details but it boils down to the circuitry to drive an eInk display is thicker than the space available.
Looks very cool. Few questions off the top of my head:
1) I presume since you'll be an actual credit card, there's an issuing bank behind you somewhere. Are you an actual startup, or is this a "division" of some huge bank trying to appeal to the tech set? Can you talk about who your issuing bank is?
1) An actual startup, currently graduating from the TS Boulder. Talking with a bunch of banks to see who can get this thing into consumers hands fastest.
2) We'll work with ApplePay 100% (currently its the only way to get to the NFC chip on the iPhone)
Apple Pay requires the vendor to have an NFC card terminal, which won't be universal for a long time if ever. This looks like it'd be usable with a normal credit card terminal.
For nerds, we know to enter our email address into the box... but I would add some text above it for the regular folk who just say "wtf do I type into this box"
Final is what we built to take back control of our own credit cards for how and when we’re charged, instead of leaving it up to merchants. That led to merchant-specific numbers and limits, managed automatically, as well as transparency in statements. It’s our stake in the ground, a way to shift the culture in credit towards consumer friendliness.
Happy to answer questions